Mother's Day outLoud

Mother's Day outLoud

18-year-old Jordan and his mom, Teri, get deep and funny as they listen to four different stories about motherhood, each with a Queer twist.

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This is outLoud Radio

Teri (to Jordan): So what are you going to ask me?

Jordan: So Mom, what was the biggest event that you can think of raising me these past 18 and a half years?

Teri: I think the biggest event was from day one, having you, and going through 23 hours of labour, and

Jordan: I was being set up.

Teri: Yes, yes.

Jordan: I can never win an argument.

Teri: The second thing is your name, and the third thing is you coming out to me as a gay male.

Jordan: Speaking of coming out, we should introduce the show. I'm Jordan Green.

Teri: And I'm Teri Jordan-Green.

Jordan: And just a brief aside. A lot of people are going to wonder why my mom's last name is my first and last name. My mom, when I was born, decided that no matter what gender I was going to be, that my name should be Jordan to carry on her maiden name, Jordan. And Green is left over from my Dad. It's just my last name. Because I love my Dad very much.

But, this is a Mother's Day special, exploring motherhood from a queer perspective. That said, I guess we should get moving into the first piece.

Teri: Yes, we should.

Jordan: This one is done by Dia. Dia lives in Oakland, California. She recorded this diary when she was 22. So let's start the show.

Dia: This is Diamani Fallana, coming to you, beautiful, sexy. [Giggles]

I have childhood memories of playing Barbies with the girls. I never was the sports type of guy. I never played basketball, baseball or football. I was very, let's sit with the girls and play Barbie, and play house, and play all the games that little girls would play, and do all the things that little girls would do. Because, inside I always felt like a little girl.

I never have felt like a boy, I've never been interested in playing boy games and doing boy things. It's just never been an interest of mine. I've always been a little girl, growing up.

[music]

Dia: It all started when I was about 9, 10 years old, and me and my mother were sitting down watching Phil Donahue. And the show was actually based on gays and lesbians and them coming out to their families and seeing if their families will accept them. And it was one, everybody was pretty much cool with it, if I can remember straight, everybody was cool with their family, you know what I'm saying, it was shocking to a lot of people.

But this one story that stuck in my mind was about this guy and he told his mom and his dad and stuff, and he was like, "Well, I'm gay." And, they disowned him, and they just like, were, oh, well, you're not a part of our family anymore. And they got really upset and walked off stage.

And I remember looking up at my mother.

She was sitting on the couch, I was sitting on the floor right next to her. I remember looking up at her and saying, "Mamma, if I told you I was gay," I said, "Would you do me like that?"

And I remember her saying, "Yes."

And I remember her telling me "Yeah, I would do you like that. I wouldn't want my children, I wouldn't want none of my children to be gay."

Growing up, not even then, I didn't even know. You know what I'm saying? Pretty much, my sexuality. But at the same time, when I started growing into my sexuality and my mother would ask me, you know what I'm saying, on certain occasions, "Are you gay? Are you gay? Are you gay?"

And it would always be "No, no, no, no, I'm not gay, why do you ask me that, no." Because I've always had that fear, since a nine year old child, that if I was to do that, I would be disowned by my family.

It was kind of a scary thing for a young kid to think, if I lose my family, then what's going to happen to me? You know what I'm saying? So I kept it a secret for as long as I could stand it.

[music]

When I was about 16 years old was when I found out about the club. Through my friend Jason. He used to always take me to the club or whatnot and we used to always have hella fun, and I used to sneak out of my room. I used to close my door. Because I used to sleep with my bedroom door closed. So I would just close my bedroom door and sneak out of my window and come back at three o'clock in the morning.

[music]

One time we went to the club or whatnot, and I had snuck out or whatnot, and when I came home it was probably about three or four in the morning. I noticed that my window was closed. And it was locked. And so I had no choice but to get caught. Because I had to go around.

[music]

And so I went and I knocked on the front door. And my mom came, and she looked out of the curtain, and she said, "Um, you're not coming in here."

[music]

I said, "Momma, why?" She said, "Yeah, you wanna sneak out, I'm going to show you what it is to be outside." And actually closed the curtain and left me outside for like, two days. My momma wanted to know where was I sneaking off to.

And that's kinda what actually helped me bring it about to her that I was gay. Because I started around 16 going to the clubs, and being on the gay scene, and seeing the girls and seeing the boys, and, you know what I'm saying?

And then when I finally sat her down, we sat at the kitchen table, when I finally sat her down, she said, "Well, whether you're gay or not I'm going to love you regardless. And if that's how you feel and that's what you choose, and that's what makes you comfortable, then I'm comfortable with it."

And it kinda shocked me because I was always afraid to really tell her how I felt inside, I was always afraid of what she might say or what my family might think. And so, thinking back on what was said about the Phil Donahue episode, and thinking to how my mother treats me now, I really appreciate it.

And it's a blessing from God that I can have her accept it.

It's a blessing from God that she loves me the way that she does.

[music]

Jordan: This is Jordan Green and my mom is here joining with me.

Teri: I'm Teri Jordan Green.

Jordan: Were you like that? Cause I never, as a kid, I never really felt that you were, sort of like, anti-homosexual. Like, Papa a little bit, but...

Teri: A lot, a lot.

Jordan: But...

Teri: I think it's a male thing, you know, you're supposed to pass on the name, do the 'manly thing'.

Jordan: Well, I still want to have kids.

Teri: Yeah, but you know, the traditional way. Since you've come out to me, I've talked to a lot of men, and they always, you know, a lot of them say that they don't want their son to be gay. They want him to carry on their name in the traditional way.

Jordan: Okay.

If you were really intrigued by that and you want to hear more of Dia's diary, you can go to outloudradio.org

Teri: Wonderful place to visit.

Jordan: Yeah.

So we're going to move on to the next piece. This is called "Living the Dream", and it's about Alex, a straight girl. She was born in the Midwest, and when she was a baby her mom and her dad divorced. And her mom moved far, far away to San Francisco.

So sit back, relax, listen to the eight-track. Here we go.

Alex: From the age of two I spent the school year with my dad, stepmom, little brother and little sister. We lived in a trailer in the middle of nowhere, next to our house, which was perpetually being remodelled.

We seemed like the perfect family. My dad was a lawyer, and we were all good Christians. But, I never really liked living with him. He made my brother and me do physical labour like working on oil rigs, huge farm machinery and construction sites.

Even though my mom was living far away in California, and she didn't know all about my life in Illinois, she had a good idea of how I was back then.

Mom: And it was hard, because you guys were incredibly unhappy, I felt very powerless.

You know, you were being taught racist things, sexist things, homophobic things. It was very, very, very upsetting not to be able to do anything about it, and knowing how unhappy you guys were.

To have you so many thousands of miles away with absolutely nothing I could do about it, it was, it was incredibly hard for all of us.

Alex: Once, when I was about 11, my dad told my brother and I to fold the laundry. When he came downstairs to check on us, we were goofing off. He got so mad that he picked me up by my arms, slammed me against the wall, and started yelling at me.

He then dropped me on the ground and my feet went straight into the carpet tacks that were glued on our cement floor. The whole thing was so stupid because he got all bent out of shape about some freaking laundry,

It was difficult growing up because he never let me behave or cry like a child, even when I was one.

This is Cindy, my mom's partner.

Five years ago, she started living with my mom, and she remembers hearing about what was happening to us.

Cindy: You can see a little kid in front of you, you know? And it's like you can see how they've been hurt by somebody. It makes you just go crazy, thinking somebody's treating someone you love that way.

Alex: I think I'd always heard that I could live with my mom when I was 12 or 13.

In June that year when I was visiting my mom, I asked her about it, and she agreed that we could start to get the ball rolling on suing my dad for custody.

My mom and Cindy got a lawyer and psychologist to start preparing the case. They both remember feeling like it was a battle they could not afford to lose.

Mom: Once everything got kicked into gear and started, it was overwhelmingly stressful, but also just so hopeful.

Cindy: And we had to do it exactly right because it had to come out the way we wanted it to, and we couldn't lose. You know, and so we had to make sure every single step we took was the perfect step to take.

Alex: Well one day, back in Illinois, my dad got the formal notice saying that we were suing him for custody.

Later that evening, he sat me down in our living room, and said, "Is there anything you'd like to tell me?"

It was a huge fight. I was really, really scared that he might go postal, so when the time seemed right, I just sprinted back to my room downstairs and locked the door.

I didn't come out for the rest of the night.

I had to grow up a lot in that last year in Illinois in order to stand up to the strain my dad put on me. We finally got my dad to settle out of court and give primary custody to my mom.

I got to come to San Francisco and we were all so excited.

Cindy: That was the moment at which I understood what it was like to feel hysterical, actually, because I was really excited and elated, and so I was laughing and I was sobbing at the same time. And I couldn't tell what I was really doing, and then later I was like, "Oh my gosh, I was hysterical!"

You know, so just, so happy and so relieved, and also, so exhausted, you know?

Alex: That's Cindy, as enthusiastic as any mother.

[How do we roll? Together.]

Alex: My life is completely different now.

A lot of my friends have gay parents, too. In fact, my best friend's mom is a lesbian.

That's a great thing about living in San Francisco.

Alex: So how do you think we as a family (you, me, Lee, Mom) function differently than a "normal" family, you know, Mom, Dad, still married and, you know, however many kids?

Cindy: I don't think we function differently at all. I mean I think every family is really different. But, I don't know, I think how we function as a family is pretty much the same.

I mean, we celebrated Father's Day, that was fun.

Alex: Yes, you guys, we did celebrated Father's Day, and Cindy was our daddy. So, yeah.

[Cindy laughs]

Alex: I mean, if you think about it, I think if anything we're so much luckier than other families, I mean, you know, first of all, like, I get to choose my own family, you know? Aunties, uncles, Joaquin, Spike, stuff like that. I mean yeah, we do fight, who doesn't, we're teenagers, it's going to happen. But at the same time I think it's fun, too, because we have a different sense of humour, you know?

Cindy: I think we're more open, you know? And I think that's sort of a product of spending a lot of time with gay people, or lesbian people, whatever, you know. Any type of queer person, I think. Because when you're queer, you have to go through so much. In order for us to express that, we have to overcome a lot of obstacles. And in general, I think that makes us more open in how we talk to other people, and I think that definitely carries over into us as parents.

Alex: I mean, there's nothing that you guys wouldn't accept, you know. I could say I was gay, and you wouldn't care!

Like, we're just really open about everything from bodily functions to, you know, our personalities, and I think it's fun, too, because nothing's really that taboo to us, and so we're really open in, like, a lot of ways.

And I mean yeah, maybe I need to learn to monitor myself sometimes. But I still think it's healthy to have in some way, you know?

Cindy: Yeah, I agree.

Alex: Back where I came from, people say that gay people shouldn't get married or have kids, but they don't realise that gay issues affect me, a straight girl, just as much.

If something were to happen to me, Cindy would have no say in what decisions were made in the hospital. If my mom were to die, I would automatically go back to my father, even though Cindy has been more of a parent to me in five years than my dad has been my whole life.

My life isn't always perfect. I fight with my parents just like any other teenager. But I have a great family, and great friends that will support me through anything.

I've come a long way.

For outLoud radio, I'm Alexandra Leigh.

Teri: And if you'd like to see pictures of Alex and her mom, and her mom's partner Cindy, please feel free to go to outloudradio.org

Jordan: Do you, like, agree with that, Mom? With like, what Alex's mom was saying?

Teri: I agree from having friends that are lesbian parents, or...

Jordan: My mom is a big fag hag. Oh my god.

[Both laugh]

Teri: But it's good, though, because they have an open personality, they have an openness about life. And you do, you look at it differently.

I think it's important for, regardless of what your sexuality is, that if you are a parent and you're loving and nurturing in your lifestyle and you want to pass that on to offsprings to reproduce and to go out and share that love and grow up in a healthy society, I think it's very important that you do.

And don't let stereotypes stop you from becoming a parent. Kids are wonderful to have, whether you're straight, lesbian, bisexual, gay, regardless of your sexuality.

Jordan: My mom says that now, but like, you should catch her when I make her mad. She doesn't, she's like, "I should have never had children! I could be living in the Bahamas by now!"

Makes me feel all sad. Cause I wish I was living in the Bahamas too.

[Both laugh]

Why couldn't you have me in the Bahamas, Mom?

Teri: Well, let's move forward.

[Both laugh]

Jordan: Okay.

Delexes Woods tells the story of Jack.

In contrast to Alex's story, where it was the kid talking about the two lesbian moms, this is a lesbian couple who decides to become moms.

You want to hear it?

Teri: Yes, let's hear about it.

Jordan: Okay.

[Sounds of playing: "Aww, the racecar beats it by a mile!"]

Delexus: This is Kim Annuv

Kim: Well, I'd wanted to be a mother for many, many years.

Delexus: And this is Ellen Myers.

Ellen: It was important to be personally to be able to have, like, a sustained lifelong relationship with a child.

And this is Jack Annuv-Myers.

Jack: Jack Annuv-Myers. I'm three years old.

Kim and Ellen are a lesbian couple who live in Berkeley, California. They adopted an African-American boy three years ago.

There are people who think lesbians and gays shouldn't have kids, that they'd be a bad influence. How do you feel about that, and what are some examples of times you've had to deal with that?

Well, there's laws in certain states that gay people can't adopt, so we knew there were certain states that our child was not going to come forward for us. So we do have to fight that, and we decided that we wanted to adopt our son as an out lesbian couple rather than as a single mother who then has a second parent adoption.

Being a lesbian couple must be hard for people to just give up their baby to you.

Oh yeah, it's a lot harder. The birth mother is looking for the person she can relate to to raise her child that she can't take care of. And this birth mother was compassionate about how hard it is for lesbians to get kids.

If you saw Jack and his mothers together, you would see three different skin colours. They celebrate everything from Kwanzaa to Hanukkah. They have a lot of different things in their house from different cultures.

Are there ever any moments when people treat you differently because Jack doesn't look like you?

Oh yeah, there's lot of moments like that, you know, "Is that your baby? Is that your kid?" You know, they ask me that and I go, "Yeah." And they look at me like, "Huh, let me put that together." You know.

I even had people make comments to me, oh he'll be a great boxer, a great football player, etc. Stereotypical jobs that African-American men can get. And that really greatly incensed me. But we just keep our heads high and we act like we're just like anybody else.

In years to come, like in middle school, he's going to face challenges about having lesbian moms and no father.

How will you explain it to him about that?

Well, already he's asking for daddy and we say well, we don't have a daddy but we got two mommies. And we also have all these wonderful men in our lives. I think the main thing is to, like, let him know that we know he feels different, and just, you know, acknowledge that it's happening.

[Sounds of playing: "I love my family, I love this family. I love this little family."]

By now, I bet you guys are all wondering what Jack sounds like.

What's your mommy's name?

Jack: Mommy Ellen, Mommy Kimmy.

Isn't he just a cute little boy?

[playing noises: "Buzz Lightyear to the rescue!"]

Jordan: Was I like that when I was little?

Teri: Yes, you were. Very adorable. Cute. I can relate so much to the parents, stating about having an African-American son and raising... I have an African-American son.

Jordan: You do? I'm Black?

Holy crap, I'm Black! Sweet!

Teri: Jordan is always full of surprises and fun.

Jordan: So coming up next is Alla's story.

This is a really cool story, because you get to hear it from a person who's first-generation American, and also to hear the perspective of immigrants coming into the United States and looking at homosexuality from a different perspective.

Alla: "Mom, Dad, I'm gay."

"Mom, dad, I'm a lesbian."

I kept saying it over and over in my head.

I had tried giving my parents hints by putting up a rainbow flag in my room and wearing rainbow bracelets. They never really made a move on it, until one night, when my mom pointedly stared at my rainbow bracelet, and asked,

"Ty chto, lesbianka?"

("Are you a lesbian?")

She said it with such a negative connotation that I was scared to admit it.

I chickened out and said, "do I look gay?" -- then I practically ran to my room, trying to avoid her. My heart was beating so fast.

The next day, I was determined to come out.

My dad was standing in the kitchen and my mom nearby, chopping vegetables. I had finally gotten them in the same room and this was the moment of truth. I just hoped that my mom would put her knife down so that she wouldn't accidentally cut herself or attack me with it.

I kept starting to say the phrase but stopping just before the "gay" part came:

"Mom, dad.. I'm.."

Finally, I said it.

There was a horrible moment of silence before my mom turned to me, threw up her hands theatrically, the knife still in one of them and said "I knew it!"

My dad just stayed quiet.

[Mom's and Dad's voices speaking in Russian]

Mom: We were sitting in the same place.. I was sitting right here, a little to the right.

Dad: No, no, we were right at the table.

Mom: I was crying here, this is where I was.

Dad: Well I remember I was over there.

Mom: And then I sat down, because I didn't have any strength to stand.

Dad: And then you said, "I'm gay."

Mom: But really, I could have told judging by your colored sneakers, and that you were always in the Castro during the nights, and I could have guessed that that why you were attracted there, but, still, I didn't know, I thought maybe I was wrong, you know?

Because back then that wasn't a topic to be talked about, I didn't think that I could have done that, it was scary to say it out loud. It was the blackest days of my life. Not the most, but one of them.

Alla: I knew that my parents couldn't handle my coming out on their own. I wanted them to find other people who had gone through the same thing. I thought of PFLAG: a support group for Parents, Friends and Families of Lesbians and Gays.

My parents loved the sound of that organisation as soon as they heard it. They were excited to go and looked forward to it. When they came back home after the meeting they were all smiles.

[Triumphant music starts softly in the background]

My mom was carrying a box and my dad was holding a big bottle of Martinelli's apple cider -- my favorite. My mom went into the kitchen and put the box on the table. Inside was a beautiful chocolate cake.

"Alla, we're so glad that you came out as gay!"

"We're throwing you a party tonight and all your friends can come!"

[Music swells and then abruptly sours and ends]

OK, that's not exactly what happened.

I had known that my coming out would not be good news for my parents and they would never, ever, throw me a party just because I was queer. They're immigrants from Ukraine and alternative sexualities just weren't acceptable there.

[Dad and Mom speaking in Russian]

Dad: But honestly, we didn't know. We didn't know what gay people were. We'd heard about them, but it wasn't allowed. Even talking about it. It was shameful to talk about it. Not good at all.

Alla: I couldn't believe that my parents didn't know about gay people. How do you not know? It's San Francisco, gay people are everywhere!

At first, my parents did not want to go to PFLAG. My mom thought it was a "stupid idea", that she had nothing in common with "these people" as she put it and my dad pretty much agreed.

But somehow, I convinced them to go. I think it was my constant nagging and the notes I had posted all over the kitchen listing the location and time of the PFLAG meeting.

Mom: And we only went for you. If it weren't for you we would never have gone there in our whole entire life.

Alla (to parents): What do you remember from your first meeting?

Dad: Mom was crying the whole time. Crying the whole time. The coach kept calming her, soothing her.

[Alla speaking with her parents in Russian]

Alla (to Dad): Mom was crying? You never told me that.

Dad: Yeah, crying the whole time.

Mom: I couldn't stop. Next to me sat a guy and he kept giving me tissues. I still keep the tissues in my jacket. They're still there, like souvenirs.

Alla: Aw, that's so cute!

Today marks a little over a year after I came out to my parents that Christmas Eve. A lot of things have changed. Including my parents' attitude about going to PFLAG.

Dad: No, no, PFLAG is OK.

Mom: It's a wonderful thing, it's a wonderful idea!

Alla: And they still keep coming to the meetings, every second Sunday of the month from 2 to 4 pm.

[Alla speaking to her parents in Russian]

Alla (to Mom): What's your favorite thing about PFLAG?

Mom: I love listening to stories. I'm interested... how do people live?

Dad: You hear what you never talk about in life, and it widens your horizons.

Alla: Of course, things are not perfect. My parents still have trouble dealing with my being queer sometimes, my mom especially because she wishes I could just find a boyfriend and be happy with that.

Mom: All mothers dream of seeing their daughters in a white wedding dress. Even in PFLAG, all the mothers that were there, sitting there, they said that they felt sad that they would never see their daughter in a wedding dress, with a guy in a black suit.

Alla: Oh mom, you'll see me!

Mom: Yeah, but next to you won't be a groom.

Dad: Good luck.

[laughter]

Alla: They've come a long way, and they're still working on accepting some things.

Dad: We understand it exists, but it's hard. If you meet with a girl that you love each other, we understand in our heads, but... it's hard to accept it inside.

But it's ok, that's how it should be.

For outLoud Radio this is Alla Pekareva.

Jordan: And for more radio by Alla, you can check out outloudradio.org on the web.

I'm such a momma's boy!

And not in like that annoying way where, like, I can't do anything without my mom. Because we do get into, like, battles about what I can and can't do, like all the time.

Teri: That's life.

Jordan: But I'm so protective of you, like no man can be in my mom's life except for me.

Teri: I'm glad you're admitting that over the radio.

Jordan: I am! Just in case, like, any of you fools out there think you can date my mom...

Teri: They won't hear you. I'll make sure I keep it top secret like I usually do.

[Both laugh]

Jordan: For more information about outLoud Radio, please go to outloudradio.org

Teri: Okay, I'll read that one, you read the next one.

You've been listening to a special Mother's Day program from outLoud Radio.

Jordan: outLoud Radio is a sponsored project of the Lavender Youth Recreation and Information Center, in San Francisco.

Special thanks goes out to KALW San Francisco.

This program was made possible by the generous support of the Mordecai Foundation, the Paul Robeson Fund and the Small Change Foundation.

Teri: Steven Clark composed original music for this show.

Jordan: Robbie Francis composed original music for Dia's diary.

outLoud Radio instructors include Evan Roberts and Julianna Sassaman.

The Executive Producer is Noah Miller.

I'm Jordan Green.

Teri: And I'm Teri Jordan-Green, the proud mom of Jordan Green.

And we want to thank everyone for listening to this special.

Happy Mother's Day.

Jordan: Happy Mother's Day everybody.